Aimee Mann

@#%&*! Smilers. The latest album title from Aimee Mann really shouldn’t be that surprising considering the themes of drama and conflict found throughout each of her efforts. Even her ’80s mega-hit “Voices Carry” with the group ‘Til Tuesday is supposedly based on a break-up. Since then, Mann has built a storied career on solo efforts based on these themes.

Yet when Stereo Subversion caught up with Aimee Mann recently to discuss her album, we were surprised to discover a light-hearted songwriter more interested in drawing and a new graphic novel she’s working on. So of course we cover the album, but Mann tells us a lot more about drama, how much of her work is autobiographical and being interrupted by anteaters.

SSv: I must start with a curiosity. I noticed that this upcoming tour brings you to a lot of zoos, wineries, etc.

Aimee Mann: There just seems to be a lot more of that kind of stuff that happens for the summer, so I think anybody who’s touring gets those kind of gigs in zoos and botanical gardens – these outside venues set up for music. It is really nice to sit out under the stars, listening to music and having a semi-picnic.

SSv: Have you played these venues before?

Mann: I have! I’ve played botanical gardens. I’ve played many a zoo. [Laughs] The winery thing for several years has been a standard when I head up the West Coast. There’s always at least one winery. It’s the summer time. That’s what summer gigs are about.

SSv: I can see a winery being cool as hell, but a zoo…

Mann: Well, the zoo … it’s usually out in a field. You’re not looking over the elephant cage. [Laughs] I did one a long, long time ago and this was before playing at zoos became a thing. It was a special radio station event setting up at the zoo. And it was closer to the animals and the giant anteater was protesting or something like that. [Laughs] I remember there was squawking.

SSv: How much of that do you get, asking if you are doing these things to be different? Or do you get people asking those questions about you trying to be different, trying to be morose, trying to be depressed?

Mann: I don’t think I’m naturally morose. I can be morose, but I don’t think I’m that way naturally. I think I’m actually optimistic, but I think people are more interesting when they’re in conflict. And they’re always in conflict. [Laughs] So there’s always drama.

SSv: How much of Smilers is autobiographical?

Mann: Not much of it. The way I look at it is if I have something autobiographical, it’s an emotional experience. The details never translate, so I just end up making something up anyway. So even if I feel a song is autobiographical, I will use some other situation as a metaphor that really describes my state of mind. But I think it’s a little more fictional than usual.

SSv: Were you looking forward to a project like this after a concept album like Forgotten Arm?

Mann: I think it’s just what happens. You realize that you did something that had a narrative all the way through and now you feel like writing songs that don’t have anything to do with each other, so it’s more of a collection of short stories than a novel.

SSv: There’s several obvious places of conflict on Smilers…

Mann: Well, I do think there’s conflict in anything good, with the exception of Mariah Carey’s “Touch My Body.” There isn’t a lot of conflict in that song. She wants you to touch her body and she’s very straightforward about it and presumably the listener would want to touch her body. No conflict there. [Laughs]

SSv: There were great collaborations here. How did you end up working with Grant Lee Phillips?

Mann: It’s so easy. He’s a great writer and I think he writes very easily. I had a piece of music I had around for a long time and I could not come up with lyrics I was satisfied with and I gave it to him and he came up with this weird ghost story idea.

SSv: Is that typical to have the music sketched out first?

Mann: Not typical. It happens sometimes. It’s more typical than having lyrics sketched out first. I never do that. I never just sit down and write out lyrics.

SSv: So when you have this piece of music, how do you know who to go to for collaborating or what’s your limit to admit you need help?

Mann: I usually try to finish a piece of music myself. At a certain point, you get possessive about your own songs. You say, ‘No, I want to be the one that finishes this.’ But you have to think, ‘Okay, do you really want to finish this? Or do you want to call it all your own?’ Because you have to give it away to have it be good rather than keep stuffing your crappy ideas into it.

SSv: So how did you end up getting it to Grant?

Mann: Well, I’m friends with him. I just called him up and played it to him and he sent back some words.

SSv: Through Cafe Largo?

Mann: Yeah, that’s how I’ve met him. That’s the only place I go to. I’m sure I’ve been to the El Rey once or something, but if I go out I go to Largo. I just like the vibe. And at Largo, I’m friends with the owner. I play there all the time. I love playing there. I love the audiences. I love the vibe. It’s very, very music-friendly and fan-friendly for people who really want to listen and don’t mind something … first of all, they don’t mind if something is loose. They don’t mind if they are unrecorded songs or unfinished songs. They like that. It’s very improvisatory. I don’t even know if that’s a word…

SSv: What will it mean for Smilers to be a success to you?

Mann: Sure, I’m happy with it. I’m really happy with it musically. I think it’s great. I love the musicians I played with. I loved making it. I love the vibe of it. To get four musicians who are just on the same wavelength. We rehearsed for a little bit and then we went to the studio and did one or two takes – and that’s really magic. It’s amazing to have those magical experiences. You hope that it translates and people get that, they get to get in on that.

But even if not, for me, that’s what it’s all about is having those experiences. Sometimes you can get them on stage but it’s harder because there are more variables. But when you’re in the studio and you can capture them, when you were really inside the song and really connecting with the musicians, when you look across the room and think, ‘Yeah, this is really happening’ – it’s just really nice.

SSv: Were there some transcendent moments like that in the studio for this record?

Mann: Every single song. Because those are the kind of guys who have those moments. Those are the guys who care. They’re not just showing off their chops or going through the motions or playing by rote or learning the songs as they go along. That can happen a lot in the studio, where you go and learn. That’s why we wanted to rehearse a little bit before.

SSv: How long did this take?

Mann: This record was recorded fast…

SSv: But it’s been done for quite a while.

Mann: You’re right. It has. It was done and then I got derailed by the Christmas tour. That took a lot of planning. But actually the artwork held us up. We’ve got this great artist to do art for the package. We’d contacted him a year ago and I think the art was involved and he got derailed by the holidays, too. So he didn’t finish his stuff until after the first of the year and it takes so long with production and finding a manufacturer to handle it in the right way because it’s kind of a special package. So it just takes forever.

SSv: Is it hard to not move on from a specific set of songs and come back to them and talk about them as if they are fresh?

Mann: No, because I’m doing things a totally different way. I’m not writing songs right now. I’m not onto a whole new musical thing. I was actually approached to write a book.

SSv: Is this the graphic novel?

Mann: Yeah, which was their idea. I can draw, but I can’t draw that well. My producer and bassist, Paul Bryan, is a fantastic cartoonist and he and I used to draw a lot on the road. He got me back into it. So he’s great and I’m very hit and miss. I can draw something that looks like something if I can look at it, but to draw out of my own head is an entirely different story. But I’m friends with Joe Matt, one of my favorite graphic novelists, and he lives two blocks from me. We started meeting for coffee every day and he was teaching me how to cartoon. But, like anything, the more you get into it, the more involved it becomes. It will take forever, but that’s pretty much what I’ve been doing every day.

SSv: What’s the premise of it?

Mann: I don’t know. I want to talk it over with those guys. I’d like it to be autobiographical about when I was 15-18 and getting ready to head off to Berklee School of Music, but I don’t know if that’s a bit too Ghost World-y but maybe that doesn’t matter. Maybe that’s fine. But I want to talk it over with them.

SSv: How do you get approached to do something like that?

Mann: Well, I wrote this op-ed piece about the 40th Anniversary of Sgt. Pepper’s for the New York Times last summer and somebody read it and thought I should write a book, which I think is incredibly bold to take four amateur paragraphs and turn it into a book. Maybe the power of the editor is greater than I think. And the graphic novel thing … that is so much more involved. I’m not saying writing is easy, because I can’t do that either. But learning to draw and writing…

SSv: Going back to the idea of success, how much does public response play into that?

Mann: You feel kind of useless if you don’t get it. It’s not that I depend on it ego-wise, but you do feel like otherwise it’s an elaborate hobby. You do want to feel like what you’re doing is meaningful, otherwise there’s no sense in sharing it. It doesn’t make sense to spend $120,000 and however much more to make a record if nobody is going to care. I can just write a song and play it at Largo and be done with it if that’s the case. So success for me is making a living and enough extra on top of that to be able to keep making records – to pay for them and put it out. When you do something, you do want to put it out there. That’s a natural impulse.

SSv: The new album sounds very organic. Was that something you were aiming for?

Mann: I think that’s just what happened between the musicians and it made an interesting sound. It’s also the instruments’ relationship between each other. The drummer and I had a thing. He gets a very organic sound and he collects a lot of different kind of drums and has interesting drum sounds that are not the usual kick and snare kind of thing. So he has a very organic sound and I play the acoustic guitar and the guitar worked as his high-hat. So the two of us almost formed a rhythm section together. Then putting on top of it these analog synthesizers and moogs and clavinet and piano … putting more interesting keyboards on top of it which are less organic was very interesting to me.

SSv: Is that why you stuck with Paul for production versus bringing in someone else?

Mann: Paul is fantastic. I’m on the road with him all the time. We talk about music all the time. I thought he did a fantastic job on the Christmas record, which is really beautiful sounding.

SSv: Trust is such a major element.

Mann: It’s huge. You really have to trust that someone knows where things are going and that they care about things in a similar way. Paul is dedicated to music and he has this purity about it that I haven’t seen. He really has to feel good about it or he literally can’t do it.

SSv: Has that been contagious for you?

Mann: It is. I totally understand it. But I think playing live with him especially, I haven’t enjoyed it in the same way. I liked it, but I never had this magical thing with other musicians on stage before. Normally you jump up on stage, hope everybody plays well and that it goes smoothly. But now there’s an ebb and flow, you listen to other people, there’s space and you can relax.

SSv: What about your sister? How was that connection?

Mann: She’s been writing songs, too. I’d never really realized it. She’d always sent me poems and they were fantastic, but she’s actually a painter. She’s amazing. I’m telling you, her paintings are so great. She has her own style. But she started sending me poetry and it was great, and there was one that I thought was so good that I wanted to put it to music. I called her up and asked and she said okay.

SSv: Have you thought about collaborating further with her or recording together?

Mann: [Pause] Maybe. But she writes so much it’s hard to keep up with it. She’s so crazy. Every day, it’s like, ‘Here’s a new song.’ And I’m 30 songs behind. But it’s hard because I write in a particular way and I’m very persnickety about it. It’s one thing to say, ‘Can I put some music to something you wrote?’ But it’s another thing to ask to take someone’s work and tear it all apart, and I know that’s what I would do.